[Top of the Rock] Why is there a second day scheduled for the HamFest?

[Aron Siegel]

Hi again!

Thank you both for your prompt and courteous replies--

Apparently both Mr. Tyler and I were under the same impression that the
Sunday show ended at 3pm.  It didn't.  It was scheduled only until 2 pm.

You both have brought up the same vaild points.  A show run solely by
volunteers has both its advantages and disadvantages.

As Mr. Tyler pointed out, regardless of whether the show is crafts, cats,
electronics or whatever, you will always have vendors that like to close up
early.  In every case, traffic starts to dry up earlier and earlier as well.
This is definitely a cause and effect equation and it does lead to earlier
closing times in all situations.

Might I suggest that you send out a courtesy letter to your vendors right
before the HAM Fest citing the damage that is done when they close early,
both to the Hamfest and their fellow vendors?  Perhaps with our
correspondence?

Is it possible to offer the vendors an incentive 'rebate' on their table
fees if they remain open until closing time Sunday?

I really do appreciate your Hamfest and have found some incredible deals in
the past.  I was just so dissappointed at the lack of vendors open on
Sunday.  I am glad that you do schedule a second day. It does prevent a lot
of vendors from closing early on Saturday.

Thanks again for your time

Aron Siegel
Atlanta, GA



-----Original Message-----
From: Flack, Lee V. [mailto:LVFLACK at GAPAC.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 4:44 PM
To: vinylm at aol.com; hams at totr-radio.org
Subject: RE: [Top of the Rock] Why is there a second day scheduled for the
HamFest?

Hello!

Mr. Siegel, thank you for your e-mail message.  I am so sorry that you were
disappointed with our Hamfest, and that you were unable to attend on
Saturday.  History has shown that as you stated, Sunday is a rather slow
day.  And it is also a day where the hours are shorter, and our Vendors do
pack out. 

Let me try to answer some of your questions, and at least give you an
explanation as to why we have the show on Sunday.

The Alford Memorial Radio Club leases the Gwinnett County Fairgrounds for
our Annual Hamfest.  Since we have been a 2 day show for years, we have
continued on with that tradition.  Our lease cost for the Fairgrounds costs
us about the same cost if we lease for 1 day or 2 days.  So as far as costs
go, it is not prohibitive for us to continue the show on Sunday.

Most Hamfests across the nation have grown smaller, and smaller with each
passing year.  And as the shows have grown smaller in Attendance, they have
changed to 1 day only shows, in order to show any profit at all from the
show.  We have decided that since our costs are basically the same for a 1
day show, or a 2 day show, we would remain as we have been in the past, a 2
day show.

Some of the Vendors at the show do drive a very long distance to be part of
our show, and we do appreciate them supporting us over the years.
And your reason for trying to keep them on for Sunday, so that they did not
pack out early on Saturday, is probably very valid.  We do have Vendors who
only come for the 1 day, Saturday, and pack out when ever they chose to on
Saturday.  We do not have any provision in our Vendor contract that requires
them to stay till any certain time on any day of the show.  It is left up to
them to do what they think is in their best interest.  And we do not "hold"
them for any reason on any day, and I do not think that we would want to
even consider doing that.

Having the show on Sunday does allow some additional benefits.  Some of
those being, it allows us to have an additional VEC Testing Session on
Sunday morning.  Some people who "just missed" passing the Amateur Radio
Test on Saturday, hit the books and come back on Sunday morning for the
Testing Session, and in a lot of cases, pass the elements that they failed
on Saturday.  Another reason, is that, even though the hours are shorter on
Sunday, we open the gate at 8 am, and it gives those who came on Saturday,
and did not purchase the new equipment that they saw, to come back and make
that purchase on Sunday.  The Vendors at a Hamfest usually have lower prices
for equipment than they do at any other time.
So a savings is had for the customer, and a sale is made for the Vendor.
One of my last reasons, is the same as yours, some people are not able to
come to the show on Saturday, and for them attending on Sunday allows them
at least a chance to come and take in the show.  At what ever level of
Vendors, tail gaters, and Flea Market vendors are still there on Sunday when
they arrive at our show. 

I am sure that you are aware that this show is managed, and produced
entirely by Volunteers.  Alford Memorial Radio Club Hamfest Committee
members, Club members, and members in general of the Amateur Radio Community
provide the manpower to support this show.  Along with most of the Vendors
who do this as a part time business and activity to bring their wares to
these shows.

Hopefully I have provided some insight into our show, and what are the
reasons that we do what we do, and why we do it.  I would like to invite you
to come and attend one of our Alford Memorial Radio Club Meetings anytime
that you are available.  Our meetings are held the second Thursday of each
month, at the Annistown Road Baptist Church, at the intersection of
Annistown Road and Spain Drive, just off of HWY 78 and East Park Place, just
east of Stone Mountain.  Meeting time is 7:30 pm.
More information is available at http://www.totr-radio.org/  our AMRC Web
page.

Thank you again for taking your time to provide us with your thoughts, and
ideas.  Please feel free to contact me if you should like to discuss this
further, or if you have any questions.  My e-mail address is,
LVFlack at aol.com, and my phone number is 770-465-6415.

Lee V. Flack, Jr.
KD4HPD
Alford Memorial Radio Club
Membership Chairman
AMRC Past President


Aron,

Thank you for attending our Hamfest at the Lawrenceville Fairgrounds last
weekend. We do everything we can to provide the largest and very best
Hamfest in the entire State of Georgia. We are not a professional company
running this event, but a club full of volunteers. We make changes every
year to try and make our hamfest more visitor and vendor friendly. 

Our hours of operation did change this year as an experiment in attempting
to serve our customers better. Our public gate opening time used to be
9:00am on both Saturday and Sunday and closing times used to be 5:00pm on
Saturday and 4:00pm on Sunday.  This year we opened our gates an hour
earlier at 8:00am and our closing times closed an hour earlier, at 4:00pm
and 3:00pm respectively.  By changing our hours to an hour earlier, our
vendors still had the same total amount of hours of operation as they had in
years past, it just came earlier in the day.

The reason for the change is that the majority of our crowds arrive between
7:30 am until 2:00pm on Saturday, and from 8:00am till 1:00pm on Sunday.  
Historically, Sunday is a much slower day than Saturdays and many tailgating
(outside) vendors do pack it in after lunch on Sunday. Many of the
tailgaters have sold the majority of their goods on Saturday, and do not
return on Sunday at all.  We do ask all of the inside vendors and exhibitors
to not close up until after closing time each day, but they are in control
of their businesses, and if they feel they need to close down early, there
is not much we can do to stop them.  We run special events and contests on
Sunday to bring in more visitors, and we are constantly looking for better
ways to draw larger crowds to the Hamfest.  With larger crowds, the vendors
stay open longer.

 I think because this is the Bible Belt and Sundays have historically been
for Church and family gathering time, it is hard for any festival to have a
large attendance on Sundays.  I have seen this at County fairs, the State
fair, and all types of Craft shows. In years past most all Hamfests were two
day affairs and now most are only one day events. In years past I worked as
a vendor at shows, and they are all the same. It does not matter if it is a
Craft show, Gun Show or a Jewelry and Coin Show, a few vendors always close
up early no matter what. The smart vendors stay open to gain the business
that their hasty neighbor vendors lose out on by closing early.

You ask why we open on Sunday at all, and the answer is simple.  The big
vendors and exhibitors that have come a long way will not come to a one day
show.  They drive several hundred miles, then it takes them four to six
hours or more to setup everything, and they don't want to pack it all up at
the end of a busy Saturday.  On Sunday they have some time to talk with
other vendors, and talk in detail with some of their customers.  In many
cases, they make almost as much on Sunday as they do on Saturday, because
the customers have come back to purchase a specific item that they saw the
day before.  

As far as committing to two days, we will work harder to keep the vendors
open and staying open for the duration, but as I say, we do not control the
vendor's businesses or their priorities in life.  I am sorry that you were
unable to make it on Saturday, because most all of the vendors stayed all
day until closing. My only suggestion to anyone going to a Hamfest, is to
get there early.

Thank you for your comments, as we appreciate them and will use them to try
to make our Hamfest better.

Sincerely Yours,
Robert Tyler, KF4VBR
AMRC President.



-----Original Message-----
From: hams-bounces at totr-radio.org [mailto:hams-bounces at totr-radio.org]
On Behalf Of Aron Siegel
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 3:28 PM
To: hams at totr-radio.org
Subject: [Top of the Rock] Why is there a second day scheduled for the
HamFest?


Hi there--

I love attending the Ham Fest.  I wish the Atlanta vicinity shows were held
more often than just twice a year.  Let me preface all of my following
comments as someone speaking from outside the HAM radio world.  I am a
working audio professional, and I represent potential business.

Something's been bothering me for the past couple of years, and it seems to
be an often familiar pattern.  That is, that the second day hours seem to be
getting shorter.

I'm not sure how long ago, and how frequently this has been happening, but
it starts with a few dealers and tables starting to pack up early (about an
hour before closing), and then pretty soon other vendors start to pack up
early too.  Then, potential customers pass by several empty tables and
realize there's nothing to see so they stop staying late or coming late.
Then the dealers and the show request that the hours be shortened the next
year because there's not enough traffic later in the day.  So the show
shortens the hours.  The then whole process starts all over again.

I wasn't able to get to the show on Saturday, but I drove almost 300 miles
round trip to see the show on Sunday.  I got there at 12:30 pm and everyone
was already packing up and getting ready to leave.  With the exception of
about 10 vendors, everyone else had pretty much finished packing up.

This all leads to my SUBJECT question:

Why is there even a second day?  You guys open up in the morning for a few
hours and then start packing.  I suppose having that second day still serves
as a buffer.  It keeps everyone from starting to pack up at 3 pm on
Saturday, but that still doesn't address the issue.  If the Ham Fest is
supposed to be a two day event, then the vendors and the venue need to
assure potential customers that they'll be there up until close on the
second day.  If you're wondering why traffic has died down so much, or
you've complained that no one comes late on Sundays, now you know why.

And I'm not faulting any vendors that come from great distances about their
needs to be on the road sooner--I'm just pointing out that you're ALL paying
for two days and your fellow vendors are making it less attractive for
potential business to attend.  You need to commit to TWO days, and not just
1 day with maybe a sprinkling here or there on day 2.


Thanks again for your time in reading this.  I wrote it specifically as an
outsider's perspective as to something I've seen in business before, and not
to slam anyone or anything like that.

Sincerely

Aron Siegel
Atlanta, GA


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